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Acceleration

Robert Hansen
NPR just did a story on the (recent) topic of acceleration…


Even though I did start school early, I am more concerned with authenticity than acceleration. I suppose that if I could have accelerated out of those dismal schools I went to starting in the 5th grade, then I would feel differently, although the high school at that location was just as dismal. But all of was still an issue of authenticity more than grade level. The attitudes against acceleration then were the same as now. The issue of skipping a grade came up again in 4th grade and they nixed it. I think I got lucky in 1st grade because they we just moved and they didn’t check. When you look at the work to be done in elementary school, I imagine any academically minded (smart) student could skip a grade or two pretty easily. It’s like coming into a game, in the middle, after the rules have already been explained. You catch up. But there are a lot of other experiences that go on in school (elementary and secondary), in real time, that you would not get. Not just social things, but also thoughtful things. Just because you are quick to catch on doesn’t mean that the world takes place twice as fast. It still takes place at 1X. And then there is maturity, which is probably the crux of why attitudes against acceleration are not limited to just the U.S. Attitudes against acceleration seem to be universal.

I can see skipping a grade or two in elementary school being a better fit for some students, but it still wasn’t close to the experience I had in 8th grade, at a real school, where I was able to sign up for any class that I was fit for or that I thought I was fit for, and that were real (rigorous). And, as I said earlier, it was those classes that made my and my peer’s futures. Those classes are very hard to find now in regular schools, even middle class schools.

Bob Hansen

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Re: Acceleration

kirby urner-4

I can see skipping a grade or two in elementary school being a better fit for some students, but it still wasn’t close to the experience I had in 8th grade, at a real school, where I was able to sign up for any class that I was fit for or that I thought I was fit for, and that were real (rigorous). And, as I said earlier, it was those classes that made my and my peer’s futures. Those classes are very hard to find now in regular schools, even middle class schools.

Bob Hansen


I think once you're a teenage at least, the idea of "grades" is pretty goofy.  Sign up for classes and do the work.  Like college.

We've cited this video many times already, I know:

https://youtu.be/zDZFcDGpL4U

Let the joke schools keep going with grades.  The more serious schools need to get more serious.

Kirby

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Re: Acceleration

Carleton Washburne
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
Robert Hansen wrote:

Robert, do you ever edit, even after your stuff gets posted? It doesn't seem so. When you leave things out of sentences so as to make them unfathomable to readers, that's an indication that a tiny bit of proofreading or editing or something would be in order. It's must a matter of wanting to be understood.

That said, let's look at this particularly egregious comment of yours:

"When you look at the work to be done in elementary school, I imagine any academically minded (smart) student could skip a grade or two pretty easily."

So in the World According To Bob, "academically  minded" = "smart" and if you're one you are automatically the other.

How, then , do you account for smart people who are not "academically minded"? Or do you deny (or are you unaware) that such people exist and in large number?

I categorically deny that those two terms are synonymous. And it speaks volumes about your assumptions that you think they are interchangeable.

In fact, there are many people who are not academically minded precisely because of just how smart they are.

> NPR just did a story on the (recent) topic of
> acceleration…
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2015/04/30/401980669/skip-
> a-grade-start-kindergarten-early-its-not-so-easy
>
> Even though I did start school early, I am more
> concerned with authenticity than acceleration. I
> suppose that if I could have accelerated out of those
> dismal schools I went to starting in the 5th grade,
> then I would feel differently, although the high
> school at that location was just as dismal. But all
> of was still an issue of authenticity more than grade
> level. The attitudes against acceleration then were
> the same as now. The issue of skipping a grade came
> up again in 4th grade and they nixed it. I think I
> got lucky in 1st grade because they we just moved and
> they didn’t check. When you look at the work to be
> done in elementary school, I imagine any academically
> minded (smart) student could skip a grade or two
> pretty easily. It’s like coming into a game, in the
> middle, after the rules have already been explained.
> You catch up. But there are a lot of other
> experiences that go on in school (elementary and
> secondary), in real time, that you would not get. Not
> just social things, but also thoughtful things. Just
> because you are quick to catch on doesn’t mean that
> the world takes place twice as fast. It still takes
> place at 1X. And then there is maturity, which is
> probably the crux of why attitudes against
> acceleration are not limited to just the U.S.
> Attitudes against acceleration seem to be universal.
>
> I can see skipping a grade or two in elementary
> school being a better fit for some students, but it
> still wasn’t close to the experience I had in 8th
> grade, at a real school, where I was able to sign up
> for any class that I was fit for or that I thought I
> was fit for, and that were real (rigorous). And, as I
> said earlier, it was those classes that made my and
> my peer’s futures. Those classes are very hard to
> find now in regular schools, even middle class
> schools.
>
> Bob Hansen
>
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Re: Acceleration

Haim-5
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
Robert Hansen Posted: Apr 30, 2015 4:50 PM
>NPR just did a story on the (recent) topic of
>acceleration?
>...It?s like coming into a game, in the middle, after
>the rules have already been explained. You catch up. But
>there are a lot of other experiences that go on in
>school (elementary and secondary), in real time, that
>you would not get.

Bob,

   You ask many of the right questions, of course, but you don't have to reinvent the wheel.  These questions, and many others, have been asked and answered at least 300 times since about 1955.  We know the answer.

   The answer is that for the right students academic acceleration is a godsend.  There is not an iota of evidence to support the hypothesis of adverse social and emotional impact on "accelerants".

   To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence indicating serious adverse social and emotional affect to holding back children who ought to be accelerated.

   "TAG" ("Talented And Gifted") children typically begin the school year masters of (not passingly acquainted with, but masters of) at least half of all the material that is to be taught in the year.  Therefore, opponents of academic acceleration have to make the case for the beneficial effects of abject boredom and frustration.

Haim
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Re: Acceleration

Timotha Trigg
It's interesting to read the comments following the article.  For example:

"And it's not just about being 2-3 years ahead, but being ahead *and moving twice as fast*. Putting a cheetah up with the next group of turtles is not a sustainable solution."

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Haim <[hidden email]> wrote:
Robert Hansen Posted: Apr 30, 2015 4:50 PM
>NPR just did a story on the (recent) topic of
>acceleration?
>...It?s like coming into a game, in the middle, after
>the rules have already been explained. You catch up. But
>there are a lot of other experiences that go on in
>school (elementary and secondary), in real time, that
>you would not get.

Bob,

   You ask many of the right questions, of course, but you don't have to reinvent the wheel.  These questions, and many others, have been asked and answered at least 300 times since about 1955.  We know the answer.

   The answer is that for the right students academic acceleration is a godsend.  There is not an iota of evidence to support the hypothesis of adverse social and emotional impact on "accelerants".

   To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence indicating serious adverse social and emotional affect to holding back children who ought to be accelerated.

   "TAG" ("Talented And Gifted") children typically begin the school year masters of (not passingly acquainted with, but masters of) at least half of all the material that is to be taught in the year.  Therefore, opponents of academic acceleration have to make the case for the beneficial effects of abject boredom and frustration.

Haim

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Re: Acceleration

Haim-5
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
Timotha Trigg Posted: May 1, 2015 4:15 AM
>"And it's not just about being 2-3 years ahead, but
>being ahead *and moving twice as fast*. Putting a
>cheetah up with the next group of turtles is not a
>sustainable solution."

Exactly right, and the reason is not terribly bizarre.  One of the main differences between high achievers and low achievers is the "summer effect".

During the school year, almost all students actually make pretty good academic progress.  (One of the reasons teachers feel aggrieved.  They think they are doing their jobs, and I agree.)  But, then comes summer.  At the beginning of the next academic year, many students begin almost as if the previous year did not happen.  They had pretty much forgotten a lot, maybe most, of what they had learned the previous year.  

To accommodate this, the school year is divided into three parts.  The first part is review of the previous year.  The second part is new material.  And the third part is review of the current year's material.  By the end of 12 yrs of schooling, students will have spent 8 yrs in review.

In the mean time, the high achieving students retain pretty much everything they had learned from the previous year, and they start the new year staring into the abyss.

Haim

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Re: Acceleration

kirby urner-4


On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Haim <[hidden email]> wrote:
Timotha Trigg Posted: May 1, 2015 4:15 AM
>"And it's not just about being 2-3 years ahead, but
>being ahead *and moving twice as fast*. Putting a
>cheetah up with the next group of turtles is not a
>sustainable solution."

Exactly right, and the reason is not terribly bizarre.  One of the main differences between high achievers and low achievers is the "summer effect".


Also, if you're in the slammer for something you didn't do or that isn't a crime, or for some other reason, access to educational materials will be scant.

The "high achievers" like to imagine it's because of Mensa, but really it's because they've thrown the competition in jail, so to speak, by depriving schools of most supplies.

The supplies they do get, are not only under-informing, they're misinforming. 

Do we tell East St. Louis kids about OMR?  I do, sure.  A lot of us do.  But notice we're not in the textbook business.
 
During the school year, almost all students actually make pretty good academic progress. 

Except in the joke schools where the principals don't know SQL.  [1]

From those, the kids are excused, with encouragement to seek a real education.
 
(One of the reasons teachers feel aggrieved.  They think they are doing their jobs, and I agree.)  But, then comes summer.  At the beginning of the next academic year, many students begin almost as if the previous year did not happen.  They had pretty much forgotten a lot, maybe most, of what they had learned the previous year.

This "summer" stuff is what many charters (newer public schools) avoid with their year-round calendars, same total number of "hours" of instruction mas o meno.

LEP High has one of those, across from AFSC before it closed in that location.  I was active in the politics of getting it going (see blogs).

Rural America needed the kids home to toil in the fields. 

With the new slavery system (aka the "undocumented = no human rights" program) we no longer need to work for a living in that way.
 

To accommodate this, the school year is divided into three parts.  The first part is review of the previous year.  The second part is new material.  And the third part is review of the current year's material.  By the end of 12 yrs of schooling, students will have spent 8 yrs in review.

You describe joke school well.
 

In the mean time, the high achieving students retain pretty much everything they had learned from the previous year, and they start the new year staring into the abyss.

Haim

The high achieving students are with me in wanting a real education, with or without assistance from the State of Florida or any of those.

I mention States because the governors seem to want to be behind Common Core, even though it's only inches above brain dead. [2]

That was politically risky of them. 

I'm not sure if States are going to have as much power now that DC's power is so clearly on the wane (White House faring better than most, go tigers).

Kirby

[1]   http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9738524

"""
Again, when my black cars pull up, no badges, no ID, just women in black
(I'll wait with the fleet), leaving no memory (this is science fiction in
case you were wondering), all we do is go the the principal and say "do you
know SQL?". The flow chart is simple: if she or he says "no" or "what's
SQL?" then triage dictates our moving on (maybe not a disappointment to
them either). This school was too unlikely to be a success story.
"""

Tweet: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kirbyurner/16411673294/

[2]  http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2014/11/common-core-mathematics-as-poverty-line.html


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Re: Acceleration

Dave L. Renfro
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
Timotha Trigg wrote:

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=9761538

> It's interesting to read the comments following the article. For example:
>
> "And it's not just about being 2-3 years ahead, but being ahead *and moving
> twice as fast*. Putting a cheetah up with the next group of turtles is not
> a sustainable solution."

That's a very perceptive comment, and something like this guided
my thinking in many of the things I did with some of the more advanced
HS students I had in the late 1990s. In the lowest level classes (there,
these were trigonometry, precalculus, and perhaps calculus 1) I tended
not to push the envelope all that much (indeed, in some ways I was
probably one of the easier teachers for such courses), but in the upper
level courses (esp. calculus 3 and differential equations) I often
went well beyond what one would do in the equivalent college course.

An example illustrating this is how we didn't bother teaching
AP calculus, which I discussed here back in 2008.

- --------------------------------------------------------
- --------------------------------------------------------

math-teach post (13 December 2008)
Thread Title: Best High Schools - US News & World Report
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=6532328

I was rather surprised to not see the school I taught at
a few years in the 1990s listed, as well as some other
no-brainers, such as "North Carolina School of Science
and Mathematics" and "Illinois Mathematics & Science Academy".
And it's not as if having selective admissions or being a
boarding school could be the reason, since listed as #12
is "Maine School of Science and Mathematics". Looking
more carefully, I think it may be due to the heavy (entire?)
emphasis on AP and IB tests. I can't speak for NCSSM or
IMSA, but I can say that no one took the IB tests where
I was and a relatively small percentage of the students
took AP tests. Almost no AP classes were offered (none
in math), as the idea was that most of the advanced
courses were supposed to be beyond the AP level (otherwise,
the school would just be offering the same thing (some)
students could get at a large city magnet school). I can't
speak for others where I was at, but I definitely went
above and beyond what most any AP calculus teacher does
in all of my calculus 2 and higher classes there. For the
most part, my better students didn't take the AP-calculus
test. (In many cases, they already had 5's on the AB and/or
BC test before they arrived as Juniors.) They either went
to the main campus of the state university system and tested
out of the calculus sequence (and, in some cases, also ODE
and Linear Algebra) or they went to places like Caltech,
MIT, Harvard, etc. that have "entry level" math courses
requiring far more mathematical maturity than a 5 on the
BC calculus test would indicate (e.g. Harvard's famous
Math 55 course, although none of my students ever took
this course).

- --------------------------------------------------------
- --------------------------------------------------------

Dave L. Renfro
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Re: Acceleration

Robert Hansen
On 5/1/15, 1:23 PM, "Dave L. Renfro" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That's a very perceptive comment, and something like this guided
my thinking in many of the things I did with some of the more advanced
HS students I had in the late 1990s. In the lowest level classes (there,
these were trigonometry, precalculus, and perhaps calculus 1) I tended
not to push the envelope all that much (indeed, in some ways I was
probably one of the easier teachers for such courses), but in the upper
level courses (esp. calculus 3 and differential equations) I often
went well beyond what one would do in the equivalent college course.

This is why authenticity is more important to me than grade acceleration. Would you rather skip a grade and land in fake calculus or wait a year for the real thing? I realize that the best thing would be to be able to skip a grade and land in real calculus, but schools (the majority at least) don’t think that way. They have a program, a science even, of passing students from grade to grade, and this system evolved over decades of politics and mandates. I bet, in a school (like those you taught at) that focuses on content and rigor instead of “grade”, students can take whatever they are fit for. And I think that when authenticity is there, the ability to take what you are fit for comes naturally. Elementary school is a little difficult to do this in because it generally isn’t block scheduled. At least not till 5th or 6th grade in most cases.

Bob Hansen 
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Re: Acceleration

Louis Talman
In reply to this post by Haim-5
Students are not taught that learning is for anything beyond the next  
test; hence, the "summer effect", which might more appropriately be called  
"the between tests effect".

What they are taught, though perhaps not intentionally, is that one need  
not master a topic now because it will be covered again later in the year,  
not to mention next year.

And the year after that, and the year after...  (A mathematical induction  
lurks here...)

This becomes very evident in a first semester calculus course, when  
students are put out with instructors who suggest that the reason they are  
having trouble is that they don't recall their algebra (which there wasn't  
time to review in the detail they need).  And, then, again in a second  
calculus course, when they expect a review of first semester work before  
they are asked to tackle new work.  And then...well, another induction  
lurks here, too.

Moreover, these students don't seem to understand that, while review is  
never a bad idea, it is their responsibility to carry it out, and not that  
of an instructor who is supposed to be dealing with things new to them.


On Fri, 01 May 2015 08:03:41 -0600, Haim <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Timotha Trigg Posted: May 1, 2015 4:15 AM
>> "And it's not just about being 2-3 years ahead, but
>> being ahead *and moving twice as fast*. Putting a
>> cheetah up with the next group of turtles is not a
>> sustainable solution."
>
> Exactly right, and the reason is not terribly bizarre.  One of the main  
> differences between high achievers and low achievers is the "summer  
> effect".
>
> During the school year, almost all students actually make pretty good  
> academic progress.  (One of the reasons teachers feel aggrieved.  They  
> think they are doing their jobs, and I agree.)  But, then comes summer.  
> At the beginning of the next academic year, many students begin almost  
> as if the previous year did not happen.  They had pretty much forgotten  
> a lot, maybe most, of what they had learned the previous year.
>
> To accommodate this, the school year is divided into three parts.  The  
> first part is review of the previous year.  The second part is new  
> material.  And the third part is review of the current year's material.  
> By the end of 12 yrs of schooling, students will have spent 8 yrs in  
> review.
>
> In the mean time, the high achieving students retain pretty much  
> everything they had learned from the previous year, and they start the  
> new year staring into the abyss.
>
> Haim
>

- --Louis A. Talman
   Department of Mathematical and Computer Sciences
   Metropolitan State University of Denver

   <http://rowdy.msudenver.edu/~talmanl>

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Re: Acceleration

Robert Hansen
In reply to this post by Haim-5
On 5/1/15, 12:48 AM, "Robert Hansen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence indicating serious adverse social and emotional affect to holding back children who ought to be accelerated.

Do you have any links to this? I have witnessed adverse affects on parents who thought their kids were gifted. And I never bought into the TAG thing. T, yes, just G, no. You have more experience with this scene than I do. Was there anything wrong going on at Stuy? I recall reading some articles about cliques that quite frankly would have drove me away. I would have rather been at a place like Phillips. But that was just press and I would rather hear from someone with personal experience.

And I am not against acceleration, just not anxious about it when the system itself is corrupt (except for a few select schools).

Bob Hansen
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Re: Acceleration

Timotha Trigg
This is getting dated, but it is free:


If you google the title, you can find the website where you can download for free or have them send you a free copy with $6 S/H.

-Timotha

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Robert Hansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 5/1/15, 12:48 AM, "Robert Hansen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence indicating serious adverse social and emotional affect to holding back children who ought to be accelerated.

Do you have any links to this? I have witnessed adverse affects on parents who thought their kids were gifted. And I never bought into the TAG thing. T, yes, just G, no. You have more experience with this scene than I do. Was there anything wrong going on at Stuy? I recall reading some articles about cliques that quite frankly would have drove me away. I would have rather been at a place like Phillips. But that was just press and I would rather hear from someone with personal experience.

And I am not against acceleration, just not anxious about it when the system itself is corrupt (except for a few select schools).

Bob Hansen

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Re: Acceleration

hpipik@netzero.net
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
Lou,
  
   You may be right, and you raise a point worth investigating.  But, not by me because (a) I am not qualified to do it, and (b) the bottom line remains the same:  high achievers retain what they learn and low achievers do not.
 
   At any rate, as is typical of the human condition, I predict that the truth, if it is ever discovered, will be some messy mix of several theories.  Some students do not  retain because they cannot, some students do not retain because they have not bee properly instructed and motivated, and some students will move ahead.
 
   I respect the Education Mafia's desire to "cure" the low achievers---but not at the expense of the high achievers. 
 
Haim

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Louis Talman" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email], Haim <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Acceleration
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 16:36:16 -0600

Students are not taught that learning is for anything beyond the next  
test; hence, the "summer effect", which might more appropriately be called  
"the between tests effect".



____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
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Re: Acceleration

Louis Talman
On Sun, 03 May 2015 06:52:45 -0600, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

...the bottom line remains the same: high achievers retain what they learn and low achievers do not.

Duh!

Isn't that the definition?
 
--Louis A. Talman
Department of Mathematical and Computer Sciences
Metropolitan State University of Denver

<http://rowdy.msudenver.edu/~talmanl>
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Re: Acceleration

kirby urner-4
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
> On 5/1/15, 12:48 AM, "Robert Hansen"

<< SNIP >>

> And I am not against acceleration, just not anxious
> about it when the system itself is corrupt (except
> for a few select schools).
>
> Bob Hansen

That only a few select schools are prepared to really
give junior a boost is the definition of corruption.
Those already capitalized and able to afford uber-tuition
get the benefits, even though information wants to be
free.  Strong teachers get discouraged by Haim's Mafia,
which is the Army of the Mediocre in my book.  Weak
teachers suck up to admin and buy into DC's moronic
policies, or kiss up to the local Governor's office
re CCSM.

At the higher level, Wittgenstein, one of the greatest
philosophers, was always telling his brightest students
to escape the Dark Ages vortex that permeated the
academic culture surrounding him.  The Brits survive in
darkest ignorance sometimes, blinded by their ethno-
centrism, and LW had compassion, not to mention passion,
and wanted those capable of freedom to experience it.

Probably the best way to help a really talented kid is to
help him or her find ways around the mindless grading
and separation into grades.  Look on-line.  Look for ways
to get high school credit taking courses a lot more like
the 1% gets, but which the Army of the Mediocre actively
resist, given its their job to obey and not make waves.

Kirby

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Re: Acceleration

Robert Hansen


On 5/3/15, 3:17 PM, "kirby urner" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Probably the best way to help a really talented kid is to
help him or her find ways around the mindless grading 
and separation into grades.  Look on-line.

And as a logician I have to say that your hypothesis is wrong, since online has been here for 20 years, and things have only gotten worse, even for talented kids. I think the problem is as Haim says it is, more or less. Public schools have, for political reasons, actively turned away from higher achievement and are not the enabler they were 40 years ago. A public school can’t offer the rigor that Phillips is offering because that would discriminate.

Bob Hansen
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Re: Acceleration

Bishop, Wayne
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
At 04:40 PM 5/1/2015, Robert Hansen wrote:

To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence indicating serious adverse social and emotional affect to holding back children who ought to be accelerated.

Do you have any links to this?

I don't remember to whom you were responding but he/she was, in fact, correctly reporting the evidence but only by putting in quotation marks, "evidence".  There is a lopsided ton of published peer-reviewed research in support of the position.  It is not the least bit valid but that's not the point of education "research".  The point is to support the myth of the era; nothing else gets past the peer reviewers and/or the journal editor.  I used to try to read the stuff.  If you think math ed is bad, it can't compare with Bilingual Education (read Spanish first and maybe or maybe not ever "transitioning" to English) or teaching phonics-free reading of our phonetic language, English.  The latter philosophy is so strong that even the former – teaching reading Spanish prior to English – the purely phonetic nature of Spanish is not used so kids don't even learn to read Spanish as quickly or effectively as they should (all supported by lots of peer-reviewed published research, of course).

Wayne

I have witnessed adverse affects on parents who thought their kids were gifted. And I never bought into the TAG thing. T, yes, just G, no. You have more experience with this scene than I do. Was there anything wrong going on at Stuy? I recall reading some articles about cliques that quite frankly would have drove me away. I would have rather been at a place like Phillips. But that was just press and I would rather hear from someone with personal experience.

And I am not against acceleration, just not anxious about it when the system itself is corrupt (except for a few select schools).

Bob Hansen
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Re: Acceleration

hpipik@netzero.net
In reply to this post by Robert Hansen
From: "Louis Talman" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Acceleration
Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 09:57:57 -0600

 
...the bottom line remains the same: high achievers retain what they learn and low achievers do not.
Duh!
Isn't that the definition?
---------------------
 
Maybe.  You imply that students forget material from test to test because that is how they are taught  I doubt it, but that is almost beside the point.
 
We can speculate about the reasons, but the hard fact remains:  some students retain their learning from year to year, some do not.  And it is also beyond speculation that schools are mainly designed for the students who forget.  That is why students spend 2/3 of their time in review.  
 
Which might be alright for the students who forget, but it is a nightmare for the students who remember.  And the schools show no mercy to the latter.  Why not?  All together now:  The Prime Directive.
 
Haim


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On Sun, 03 May 2015 06:52:45 -0600, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

...the bottom line remains the same: high achievers retain what they learn and low achievers do not.

Duh!

Isn't that the definition?
 
--Louis A. Talman
Department of Mathematical and Computer Sciences
Metropolitan State University of Denver

<http://rowdy.msudenver.edu/~talmanl>
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Re: Acceleration

Bishop, Wayne
In reply to this post by Timotha Trigg
This is not "getting dated"; it is just as relevant as when it was first published and just as ignored by precollegiate education across the country.  The issue was being studied by/for parents of gifted kids who get cheated the most directly but the entire country gets cheated by not developing their talents and getting some fraction of them back into teaching as a career.  Teach for America tries to address the latter problem.

Wayne

At 06:18 AM 5/2/2015, Jake W wrote:
This is getting dated, but it is free:

http://www.amazon.com/Nation-Deceived-Brightest-Templeton-Acceleration/dp/B000BK4AFK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1430572325&sr=8-1&keywords=a+nation+deceived

If you google the title, you can find the website where you can download for free or have them send you a free copy with $6 S/H.

-Timotha

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Robert Hansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 5/1/15, 12:48 AM, "Robert Hansen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence indicating serious adverse social and emotional affect to holding back children who ought to be accelerated.


Do you have any links to this? I have witnessed adverse affects on parents who thought their kids were gifted. And I never bought into the TAG thing. T, yes, just G, no. You have more experience with this scene than I do. Was there anything wrong going on at Stuy? I recall reading some articles about cliques that quite frankly would have drove me away. I would have rather been at a place like Phillips. But that was just press and I would rather hear from someone with personal experience.

And I am not against acceleration, just not anxious about it when the system itself is corrupt (except for a few select schools).

Bob Hansen

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Re: Acceleration

Bishop, Wayne
In reply to this post by kirby urner-4
See Johns Hopkins:
http://cty.jhu.edu/welcome/index.html

Wayne

At 12:17 PM 5/3/2015, kirby urner wrote:

> > On 5/1/15, 12:48 AM, "Robert Hansen"
>
><< SNIP >>
>
> > And I am not against acceleration, just not anxious
> > about it when the system itself is corrupt (except
> > for a few select schools).
> >
> > Bob Hansen
>
>That only a few select schools are prepared to really
>give junior a boost is the definition of corruption.
>Those already capitalized and able to afford uber-tuition
>get the benefits, even though information wants to be
>free.  Strong teachers get discouraged by Haim's Mafia,
>which is the Army of the Mediocre in my book.  Weak
>teachers suck up to admin and buy into DC's moronic
>policies, or kiss up to the local Governor's office
>re CCSM.
>
>At the higher level, Wittgenstein, one of the greatest
>philosophers, was always telling his brightest students
>to escape the Dark Ages vortex that permeated the
>academic culture surrounding him.  The Brits survive in
>darkest ignorance sometimes, blinded by their ethno-
>centrism, and LW had compassion, not to mention passion,
>and wanted those capable of freedom to experience it.
>
>Probably the best way to help a really talented kid is to
>help him or her find ways around the mindless grading
>and separation into grades.  Look on-line.  Look for ways
>to get high school credit taking courses a lot more like
>the 1% gets, but which the Army of the Mediocre actively
>resist, given its their job to obey and not make waves.
>
>Kirby
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