# daily big ideas

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## daily big ideas

 I am a math coach at a k-5 school.  I would like to begin going into each of my 4th grade classrooms for 10-15 minutes everyday to do some quick spiralling activities on some of the big concepts for 4th grade. (kind of like the everyday counts calendar math program.)  I want the activities to be engaging, non pencil and paper and build from one day to the next.   I am looking for suggestions.  I figured to cover probability.  I could have a box with different color cubes (ie 10 red, 4 blue, 4 pink, 2 yellow and 1 green) and each day we would pull one cube from the box after we determine and discuss the probability for each color.  We could continue discussing the probability and pulling a cube each day until the bag is empty. I am looking for similar types of very quick engaging activities that would address a few other 4th grade big ideas or build number sense.
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## Re: daily big ideas

 Matt, here are a couple of things to consider. 1.  Do a series of number based "magic tricks" where the students can use their computational skills to verify why the tricks work. 2.  Have groups of students design, administer and analzyze surveys over topics they are interested in.  The results will lead toward fraction work as well as statistics and probability concepts. Richard ================== I want the activities to be engaging, non pencil and paper and build from one day to the next. I am looking for suggestions. I figured to cover probability. I could have a box with different color cubes (ie 10 red, 4 blue, 4 pink, 2 yellow and 1 green) and each day we would pull one cube from the box after we determine and discuss the probability for each color. We could continue discussing the probability and pulling a cube each day until the bag is empty. I am looking for similar types of very quick engaging activities that would address a few other 4th grade big ideas or build number sense.
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## Re: daily big ideas

 In reply to this post by matt schell At 12:12 PM 1/28/2008, matt schell wrote: >I am a math coach at a k-5 school.  I would like to begin going into >each of my 4th grade classrooms for 10-15 minutes everyday to do >some quick spiralling activities on some of the big concepts for 4th grade. Reasonable. >(kind of like the everyday counts calendar math program.) I have no idea what this is.  Is the "everyday" to be capitalized?  Would explain a lot. >  I want the activities to be engaging, Reasonable. >  non pencil and paper Why, for crying out loud?!  They are the tools of the trade! "They develop fluency with efficient procedures, including the standard algorithm, for multiplying whole numbers," >  and build from one day to the next. Reasonable. >I am looking for suggestions.  I figured to cover probability. In 4th grade?! I thought you mentioned "big concepts for fourth grade", not their avoidance! >   I could have a box with different color cubes (ie 10 red, 4 blue, > 4 pink, 2 yellow and 1 green) and each day we would pull one cube > from the box after we determine and discuss the probability for > each color.  We could continue discussing the probability and > pulling a cube each day until the bag is empty. Or you could get with the program and focus on NCTM Focal Points for 4th grade where the first occurrence of "probability" is in 7th, well after fractions are well developed.  What a concept. http://www.nctmmedia.org/cfp/focal_points_by_grade.pdfWayne >I am looking for similar types of very quick engaging activities >that would address a few other 4th grade big ideas or build number sense. > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: >1/27/2008 6:39 PM > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: >1/27/2008 6:39 PM - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 9:32 PM
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## Re: daily big ideas

 In reply to this post by matt schell Wayne, what would you do if you were in his shoes?  What activities would you recommend for 4th grade? Richard
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## Re: daily big ideas

 At 05:31 AM 1/29/2008, Richard Strausz wrote: >Wayne, what would you do if you were in his shoes? Sorry, I though that was clear.  I'd start by trying to understand what are the big mathematics ideas of the elementary grades, especially 4th.  The Focal Points are helpful.  Again, reference is: http://www.nctmmedia.org/cfp/focal_points_by_grade.pdfEven better, the Green Dot standards of the California Math Standards http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/documents/math-ch2-k-3.pdfhttp://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/cf/documents/math-ch2-4-7.pdf>  What activities would you recommend for 4th grade? That's getting the cart before the horse.  Beyond that, it's missing on the role that the math coach (if one is justified at all) should be playing.  The correct role is understanding what the ideas are and helping teachers make sure that they have that knowledge, understand the concepts, and have supportive curricula. Thanks for asking, Wayne - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 9:32 PM
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## Re: daily big ideas

 In reply to this post by matt schell > > >  What activities would you recommend for 4th grade? > > That's getting the cart before the horse.  Beyond > that, it's missing > on the role that the math coach (if one is justified > at all) should > be playing.  The correct role is understanding what > the ideas are and > helping teachers make sure that they have that > knowledge, understand > the concepts, and have supportive curricula. Thanks > for asking, > > Wayne Wayne, the premise of the initial request was: "I am a math coach at a k-5 school. I would like to begin going into each of my 4th grade classrooms for 10-15 minutes everyday to do some quick spiralling activities on some of the big concepts for 4th grade..." In your zeal to tell him how to do his whole job, you may have missed that he is talking about taking out 10-15 minutes per day per class.  It is VERY supportive of the functions you identified for a coach. Do you have any specific suggestions that you can pass along? Richard
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## Re: daily big ideas

 Michael Paul Goldenberg wrote: > Wayne's objection starts with his discovery of the shibboleth > "everyday" in the original post. He makes clear by asking if the word > should have been capitalized that he presumes that "Everyday Math" is > lurking. Thus, the poster must be "fuzzy," and everything else, > including his hostility and sarcasm, follows as night follows day. > > This sort of knee-jerk reaction is perfectly consistent not only with > his historical misbehavior, but with that of so many other > narrow-minded haters of reform. The classic situation, of course, > involved the reaction of Sandy Stotsky while serving on the math > curriculum committee in Massachusetts to the word "construction" in > the context of geometry. She took this to be another form of > "constructivisim" and, predictably, objected. > > Of course, Ms. Stotsky has an excuse. She has no credentials in > mathematics. What's Wayne's excuse here, other than that his litmus > test for everyone is an indication of undying fealty to the narrowest, > most reactionary views of education possible? > > Education isn't a game, let alone a zero sum game. I don't believe > that Wayne has the smallest clue what a math coach does or should do, > nor could I imagine him being one. He has, at best, only one small > fraction of the skill set the job requires to be fully effective. I > don't know if I'm the only person on this list who has worked as a > math coach, but I'm confident Wayne has not. Sounds like a good job. What is the reason you aren't doing it anymore? - -Greg
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## Re: daily big ideas

 In Tokyo in the Meiji era there lived two prominent teachers of   opposite characteristics. One, Unsho, an instructor in Shingon, kept   Buddha's precepts scrupulously. He never drank intoxicants, nor did   he eat after eleven o'clock in the morning. The other teacher,   Tanzan, a professor of philosophy at the Imperial University, never   observed the precepts. Whenever he felt like eating, he ate, and when   he felt like sleeping in the daytime he slept. One day Unsho visited Tanzan, who was drinking wine at the time, not   even a drop of which is suppposed to touch the tongue of a Buddhist. "Hello, brother," Tanzan greeted him. "Won't you have a drink?" "I never drink!" exclaimed Unsho solemnly. "One who does not drink is not even human," said Tanzan. "Do you mean to call me inhuman just because I do not indulge in   intoxicating liquids!" exclaimed Unsho in anger. "Then if I am not   human, what am I?" "A Buddha," answered Tanzan. On Jan 30, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Greg Goodknight wrote: > > Sounds like a good job. What is the reason you aren't doing it   > anymore? > > -Greg > > > > >
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## Re: daily big ideas

 Michael Paul Goldenberg wrote: > In Tokyo in the Meiji era there lived two prominent teachers of > opposite characteristics. ... Mike, you claim teaching expertise exceeding Dr. Bishop, but you've not managed to hold any math teaching job long enough to credibly establish any expertise whatsoever. Why is that? - -Greg > > On Jan 30, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Greg Goodknight wrote: > >> >> Sounds like a good job. What is the reason you aren't doing it anymore? >> >> -Greg >> >> >> >> >> >
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## Re: daily big ideas

 Michael Paul Goldenberg wrote: > Your reading skills seem kind of weak. > > I wrote, "Education isn't a game, let alone a zero sum game. I don't > believe that Wayne has the smallest clue what a math coach does or > should do, nor could I imagine him being one. He has, at best, only > one small fraction of the skill set the job requires to be fully > effective. I don't know if I'm the only person on this list who has > worked as a math coach, but I'm confident Wayne has not." > > Where in that statement do I assert any superiority in TEACHING skills > to anyone, let alone to Wayne Bishop? In the above, you imply you are capable in the job of "math coach", and Wayne "has, at best, only one small fraction of the skill set the job requires to be fully effective." Wayne actually is a teacher of math teachers, which is in essence what a "math coach" needs to be. He was also successful secondary math teacher before earning his Ph.D. in Mathematics. He has one famous student who went on to some repute, Jamie Escalante, and could probably vouch for Wayne having more than enough expertise to be a math coach. Your disingenuousness is showing. As if it ever isn't. > Or, for that matter, any superiority in being a math coach? Where my > expertise unarguably exceeds Wayne (and you) is in having actually > worked as a math coach. I know what the job calls for. It's not my > place to assert whether I was good, bad, or indifferent at doing it. You're dancing around the issue. Since you are no longer doing it, I'd expect you weren't very good at it, or you were doing it in a capacity as a grad student, and could well be the schools put up with you because the price was right. Really, Mike, how long will it take for you to stop the charade? You have no real standing as a math teacher, now, do you? That is, besides a Master's in Math Ed that has not resulted in significant gainful employment. Teaching SAT prep classes isn't quite what most get graduate degrees to accomplish. As far as Wayne's answer, I thought he hit it spot on, the way a teacher of math teachers should. - -Greg
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## Re: daily big ideas

 In reply to this post by matt schell Let me clarify my intentions in going into my fourth grade classes for 15 minute conceptual lessons.  Our students are assessed using the NJ ASK test.  The NJ ASK test is constructed around the 5 major strands:  Number and operations, Geometry, Patterns and Algebra, Probability and data analysis and problem solving.  At my school we are working toward developing conceptual understanding in our students which is seems is very necessary for the students to have success on the NJ ASK.  My teachers are equiped with a very traditional very skill and process focused math series and while they are trying to prepare the students conceptually it is a difficult transition for some of them.  My thought was to collaborate with the teachers to take 10-15 minutes to engage the students in each of the previously listed strands in a way that the NJ ASK requires them to think.   An update:  I have gone into each fourth grade class for the past three days for 15 minutes.  Each day we determine the length, width, perimeter and area of a rectangle and determine what we would need to change to get a specific area and/or perimeter.  We are doing an ongoing probability experiment.  Each day the students get a part of a pattern they then try to determine the rule of the pattern and predict the next days number.  We also work with a function table.  We are doing a daily doubling experiment.  (day one we got 1 penny every subsequent day we double the previous days amount then we determine our "to date" total just like the "One Grain of Rice Story" and lastly we do an exercise with building combinations or making tree diagrams.  Thus far the students have been enthusiastic in their participation, I am always interested in revisions that could be more effective.
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## Re: daily big ideas

 In reply to this post by matt schell Greg, I have questions about your two assertions below: "...He (Wayne Bishop) was also (a) successful secondary math teacher before earning his Ph.D. in Mathematics. He has one famous student who went on to some repute, Jamie Escalante, and could probably vouch for Wayne having more than enough expertise to be a math coach..." 1. Do you have any evidence that Wayne was a successful secondary math teacher? Do you know if this success was with the broad spectrum of students that a high school teacher encounters? 2. Do you think that Escalante's support of Wayne as a possible math coach would mean as much as the support of someone who didn't know much math and pedagogy before working with Dr. B? Richard
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 In reply to this post by matt schell thank you for your comments wayne, an example of a NJ ASK Perimeter problem for 4th graders would be "Veronica is making a rectangular garden. She plans to put a fence around the garden using 28 feet of fencing, and she wants the garden to be 8 feet long. How wide will Veronica's garden be? Show how you got your answer. If Veronica is going to put fence posts two feet apart around the outside of the garden, how many fence posts will she need? Show all of your work to explain your answer."  (copied directly from sample test) What would you suggest for some daily big idea activities rather than probability.  I realize the "focal points seem to focus heavily on multiplication and division. (as they should) Is there a daily, meaningful activity that could expand students understanding of multiplication and division. Thanks, Matt
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